Gonzalez used the term, "U. National Professional Championship. So this picayune speculation about why Gonzalez didn't exactly enunciate the words "You-Ess-Proh", is just that: picayune speculation, and to boot, also quite uninformed about the language actually used in that time period.
Same with the '63 edition at Forest Hills: if you really want to hang your hat on picayune word-splitting, please note that the '63 tournament called itself "US Pro Grasscourts.
This argument that Rosewall's title in '63 must have had PLTA sanction while Gonzalez's titles can be dropped because they didn't have sanction, doesn't fly even under its own premises, but again, this is just an attempt to downgrade Gonzalez's US Pro titles while keeping Laver's and Rosewall's and Borg's, etc.
This is not consistent. The statement in the Gonzalez article that '54 Los Angeles was the only one of Gonzalez's titles known to be officially sanctioned by the PLTA -- besides being contradicted by the PLTA Yearbooks, but leave that aside for the moment -- should really be duplicated on the Laver and Rosewall bios, to be consistent. You would ask, "Why? How do you know this? Is it your own research? But then what is such a statement doing in the Gonzalez article?
It was put there in precisely the same way: 1 personal research about the '54 LA report being unique; and 2 the PLTA website. It's exactly the same thing. The Gonzalez statement is misleading and has no place there; at the very least it should remain with a "citation needed. And the fundamental problem remains. The PLTA-sanctioned tournament is still going on today. But tennis histories do not list it as the US Pro, for all the reasons discussed above. Krosero talk , 25 January UTC.
Basically your argument is simply to return to the fact of PLTA sanction. You merely insist, and repeat, that only PLTA sanction matters yes, that's going in circles. Fyunck, you were right to state above, that the hindsight claim is false. Cleveland being the US Pro is not something that was done only later.
So we can go farther than merely saying that this wasn't done in hindsight. Looking at all those names above who defied PLTA authority, and looking at that political conflict, this insistence on reverting merely to the issue of PLTA sanction and saying that it alone decides these matters, looks fundamentally ahistorical. Fyunck, that's a very sensible approach to the language issue, and the retroactive issue.
I've been repeating myself about the fact that Rosewall's US Pro titles starting in '63, and Laver's in '64, are in the same boat as the Cleveland events. As you say, the '64 event was called the "First U. Professional Grass Court Champs".
There was some retroactive designation for all these events but only some! Cleveland in some years like '53 and '57, Forest Hills in '63, Longwood in '64, all were called "US Pro" by some players and journalists WHEN they were held ; and that's to be expected in an inherently messy situation. I only have to reiterate, that the sanction given to LA was temporary.
Krosero talk , 26 January UTC. This claim does not have a citation It is the sort of statement which begs for a source. It might be very difficult to find a source. The claim is now linked to the Wikipedia article on men's rankings. However, I understand that the Wikipedia article on rankings is not acceptable as a source, even though it shows 8 years at number one for Gonzales. Tennisedu talk , 22 April UTC. Hi Hayford, good to hear from you, hope all is well in Britain.
I think that the rankings is an issue not be taken too seriously. It's a clouded issue, usually not possible to rank players clearly.
In other words, there was a lot of work to do to bring this article up to the standards deserving of the article for Gonzales, perhaps the foremost American tennis player of all time. So, yes there was a pressing need to subject every part of it to a careful scrutiny and upgrade the quality of the content. Thus, the appearance of so many notices for clarification and citations, the need to assemble some genuine rankings from the contemporary world of Gonzales which would support some of the claims for his career.
There is no need for anyone to be upset about this. Clarence Carter. Budge Patty. National Champ. Seymour Greenberg. Bill Talbert. Bob Falkenburg. Frank Parker. Vic Seixas. Newport Casino Invitational United States. Gardnar Mulloy. Philadelphia Pro Championships United States. Wembley Pro , London Indoor England. Scarborough Slazenger Pro England. Pro Championships Cleveland United States. Bobby Riggs. New York M.
Pro United States. What started as a backyard party has converted into one of the largest and most anticipated events in the area, fully funded by your donations. While the festival works on a shoestring budget and depends greatly on the unpaid hours of the Festival committee and volunteers, expenses grow every year. This includes an honorarium for every musician, government permits, sound and lighting equipment rentals, design and promotion, food and drinks for the musicians, security, etc.
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